Editorial: Why Fallout Wasteland Warfare Needs a Second Edition

20 thoughts on “Editorial: Why Fallout Wasteland Warfare Needs a Second Edition”

  1. Interesting read thanks Jeff. I think to some extent all games suffer from supplement bloat (at least games that have multiple supplements!) and this is compounded by the rules on cards issue as you highlighted. Now you have to update rules and cards and it gets pretty messy. I think you’re right that the cure becomes a new edition to clean all this up.
    I had the same experience with Warhammer 40000 the last time I seriously tried to play, it was late in the edition and to get everything I needed I had to get the main rules and 2-3 supplements just to get all the rules I needed and that was a big barrier (I promptly bounced off and went back to simpler games).

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    1. Indeed! I think Fallout suffers from the problem that there are two different types of supplements. Ones that contain “essential” rules for some factions or settings and those that expand the game in new ways. Its not always obvious what certain supplements offer and that is pretty problematic, unfortunately.

      Your experience in 40k makes me think that getting into a game late in its lifespan might just be harder than newer ones. Fallout is getting long in the tooth compared to other games that get new editions regularly so it makes sense in that context. At various times, LOTR SBG and Hobbit SBG were probably better than most when it comes figuring out what you need to play the game for what its worth too! I think MESBG is not as intuitive as they were, unfortunately.

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  2. Very thought provoking Jeff, maintaining any game for a long period of time has it’s pitfalls, bring out a new faction, there’s no rules, to make them a quick seller, can be over powered, and makes the existing ones pointless, plus a supplement to give the rules. Here lies a slippery slope, especially for completists, and it continues on in this way, until the game becomes unplayable, so they then release a new set of rules, existing players may not like some or all of the rule changes, and you can lose over half your customer base overnight, and then the company realises their sales are down, and the vicious cycle starts all over again. There are many companies that follow this model, and it seems to be occurring more often as well, and the biggest problem which they haven’t factored in is the cost to the customer, there are only so many hobbyists, and they only have so much disposable income, and there are so many companies and products vying for their attention, it is very strange times indeed.

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    1. Thank you for the kind words and indeed. I think Warhammer has probably committed as many new edition sins as any game though I don’t know for sure because I’ve never really played it. I think that the new edition model is very prevalent in tournament based games like Warhammer as well. You have to constantly tweak the rules and rebalance the forces to keep the tournament scene interesting or people will get bored and play something else. Collectible card games release new sets on a regular basis for this reason and they are very much in the competitive mold like Warhammer.

      Fallout has a Battle Mode but there are not many tournaments held with the exception of Eastern Europe (Poland and Russia) strangely. That has helped the game mostly avoid the need to rebalance forces and prevents a lot of complaining like “Dark Eldar haven’t been good for three editions in a row” or “The Space Marines are way overpowered” which is nice and creates a more positive community, I think.

      Fallout probably tries too hard to be all things to all people and give lots of options so that it becomes confusing and hard to pick up and play. Perhaps creating starter sets for some of those different routes might help. Either way, we sound like we’ve got some business savvy in this conversation, I reckon 🙂

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  3. Thoughtful comments from Nic and Dave! 🙂 Can’t really add to them! When I played Warmachine, the basic rules were revised and published with fixes in them and extra rules that had crept in via sourcebooks, but they basically worked the same and I was OK with them. They then revised the rules again and published another book and I just didn’t like them – that combined with the move from campaign-type sourcebooks to faction sourcebooks with a completely changed points system put me right off! So I suppose the bottom line is that updated versions can swing either way!

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    1. Very much so, John! I think the problem that tournament based games tend to run into is that they update the rules and change editions too frequently or institute unpopular changes which is why you hear grumbling amongst fans. Fallout fortunately doesn’t have that problem and if they take their time and get a new edition right, it would benefit the game. We’ll see what happens in the next two years with the game as its getting harder for new people to start playing which will surely affect sales eventually.

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  4. You’ve pretty much explained how difficult it is to get new players onboard very well. A lot of the points raised highlight just how F:WW has become a difficult wargame to consider investing into.

    I was trying to get a few people in my local club to play F:WW in my first attempt. It dropped off pretty fast before any demo game could be played. Then months later I had a conversation with those who have played the game. They’ve expressed the same topic points you’ve mentioned in your post. In fact, F:F seems to be more of a appetising interest to the club, especially the Necromunda/Warcry players. I’m giving it a go to see if it’s worth going into.

    Personally, I’ve lost interest in F:WW due to the changes and lack of direction after John Webb left the team. My “not 100% factual” theory is that F:WW is on an extended support. The models sell well I’d imagine, but hype and media coverage for the game itself is pretty much quiet. Sure, you have Instagram posts and hobby channels like WGNR and Misfits Hobbies, but not the kind of coverage that gets people hyped for releases anymore. If Fallout: Factions does well enough in sales, then I’d imagine it will be the main IP game of tabletop Fallout, whilst F:WW becomes secondary until support goes off.

    Even the Modiphius Forum for F:WW is barren apart from the few updates in a month.

    F:WW needs the following in order to get some life back into the system before ending up like other IP wargames being discontinued.

    1- New Edition, it’s nearly been a decade, so a revamp is justified.

    2- Rework everything from the basic rules, factions, Items and a way of condensing cards for tabletop space.

    3- Modiphius being more transparent like it was during the John Webb era, we had a ton of changes to the game that John always shared with insight and alternative solutions. The current lead for the system sharing what’s going on would help greatly in community confidence. Just don’t do an Errata in a supplement like Nuka World did…

    4- Make Supplements more in line with setting rules and expansion on narrative wargaming. Unique Settlement mode options for regions, campaigns like AoS Path to Glory, and fully realised multiplayer or solo campaigns.

    5- Rework unit cards as landscape print, less on fancy style and big pictures, and more of a all in one reference for ease of play.

    I could go on, but that’s what I’d like to see with F:WW. 🙂

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    1. I’m really glad you feel like my ideas and criticisms are on point, mate. I gave this article a lot of thought and want to be fair to everyone involved.

      The game wasn’t so hard to get into until the last year or two where Modiphius has really muddied the waters. I think the rule change and invalidating their own products (the cards) was by far their biggest mistake as we’ve discussed before too.

      I completely agree with every single suggestion you made. I think going bigger than cards would make them more printable and they’d be easier to read when playing too. The supplements should be more obvious from the title and branding as to what they offer as well. That will really help new players jump in.

      I think Modiphius needs to be more transparent, restore fan confidence after the rule change debacle, and they need to promote the game better/more. Compare their promotion efforts with GW’s which is slightly unfair but still useful to think about. There’s no reason that Modiphius couldn’t have an annual Fallout painting competition to highlight people’s work and inspire people to buy miniatures. I have trouble finding outstanding work done by the community and I’d love to see that more. Modiphius could also publish official battle reports on Youtube once a month or so and that would be well-received and promote the game nicely too. They’ve never handled that part of Fallout as well as they could and you have to subscribe to their emails, read their blog, or be in the right Facebook group to see any of that stuff. That doesn’t do the game justice, sadly.

      Lastly, I hope they’ll keep cranking out hard plastic kits. I haven’t gotten any yet but I’ve broken some flimsy resin weapons and there is an overall feeling with the minis that they could break very easily. I would think and hope that hard plastic solves this problem! I’ll find out sooner or later as I want to buy a hard plastic kit even if I don’t need it, just to give it a lookover 🙂

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      1. I can see where Modiphius has had to alter the way F:WW was being produced due to time, resources, cost and Bethesdas’ approval before release. John during his run made it very clear in community posts on the official site, and forums, why such things were done.

        Fair enough when it comes to production and delay.

        However, I’ve said it too many times before on the subject of Nuka World expansion, and the current lack of hype for F:76 year long Wave release.

        Whilst the cards are now free pdf to print or download, ink is very expensive. I’ve printed cards of most units from F:NV, before armour rules were changed…

        I’ve recently played Fallout: Factions for a demo game, to see how that played out. Despite not having the granular options like F:WW for a tabletop rpg, it just played out better with less fuss on the amount of tokens, cards, colour ruler ranges and rules to remember. It’s very fun to play, and has atleast sparked my interest in Modiphius products again after months away from the news.

        Luckily, I heard awhile back that hard plastic kits are being done for older factions like Wastelanders and Super Mutants. The WYSIWYG can be easier now with multi-part kits.

        Overall, F:WW Needs a big revision like Killteam and AoS if it is still being supported like Modiphius has said months ago. The starter set is old, outdated in rules, and very much needs a new version.

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      2. I think fans of the game are willing to let a lot of the quirks of Fallout Wasteland Warfare go too. I know I do.

        Do you think that Fallout 76 was a good idea to focus on right now? I would think other Fallout games might be more popular and might bring in new people but I could be wrong. I’ve never played it myself because of the bad reviews so I highly doubt I’d ever purchase the miniatures. I have enough Fallout 4 minis to paint as it is too.

        That is good to hear about Factions. Have you tried the Vault-Tec rules yet? I’m contemplating giving them a shot in my next game whenever that happens. I’m working on some terrain that will take a while yet to finish. It seems like Vault-Tec rules simplify some of the complexities and reduces the number of icons as well though I hope the game is still really thematic as I like that about Wasteland Warfare.

        I’m looking forward to those plastic kits! I broke several flimsy super mutant weapons and I think that hard plastic should solve that problem going forward. I hope Modiphius can keep releasing the plastic kits with time though I’m sure it will be at a slow pace.

        Indeed. I think you and I have correctly assessed the problems with F:WW. I hope that Modiphius listens and that they do it the right way. We can’t afford any big mistakes like the armor rules change right now.

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      3. For 76 I’m out the loop on whether it’s been a strong or weak wave. The lowest I’ve heard was New Vegas, which is the popular game of the series, which didn’t do well in FWW.

        Would 76 players be invested in FWW? The fan bases on that game is split into a few groups, from a poor release to a more or less good game with an ever expanding expansion content. Since it’s a 2 part wave release If rumours are true, then next year will have more 76 content. Aa for the next wave, that might be back to Fallout 4 with the revised plastic sets for Survivors and Supermutants.

        Fallout Factions is a really fun game that I’m more keen to see how that develops over the next few years. Hopefully the rulebook is released on its own next year. The starter set is a great boxset, but the two factions included are not for everyone who isn’t too aware of Nuka World.

        As for the Vault-Tec Simulation pdf, it’s a self contained ruleset that is aimed at introduction games for new players. It’s a lot more clearer on how the game is played, and adds and leaves out a few rules. It’s more like a 1.5 edition of FWW that fixes some issues from the starter rules set from the starter box. I’d recommend giving it a try for rules clarification. 🙂

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      4. Makes sense! I agree that 76 is divisive and some people might like that game but have never played other games in the series. I’ll be excited when more Fallout 4 stuff comes out, especially Far Harbor.

        I’m glad to hear that Factions is keeping your interest up in Fallout and I look forward to seeing how the game grows as well. I’ll definitely give the Vault-Tec rules a go sometime soon! I’m already looking forward to it 🙂

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  5. I hadn’t realized there was so much confusion with FO. I’ve played the game like 3 times and enjoyed it. My friend is big into it and he has everything so I just show up. I guess he has the job of keeping track of all this stuff. 😀

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    1. Its hard for new players to figure out what they want and the last year or so is when things have gotten messy. Luckily for you, you have a smart and nice friend who makes it easy for you 😀 The game is worth the effort if you like Fallout and narrative gaming but the barriers to entry are not insignificant at the same time.

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  6. Very interesting and informative article! I feel if a company does a rule update be it second edition or whatever it should be in starter set with some new figures or something that it makes it worthwhile.

    I agree with you and others that companies need to consider table space when designing games. I feel that when people get together to play games the designers don’t consider that there will also be drinks and snacks involved either at home or at gaming pubs.

    Cards are hard to design between information to be delivered and the appearance itself. Finding that balance is a fine art in itself. I sometimes wish the cards would have the relevant rulebook page number on them also but it does get too crowded.

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    1. Thank you for giving it a read! I’d agree with a new starter set being a good idea. Games Workshop does it well and Fallout’s starter is quite old now. Its the perfect time to make a new one.

      Table space isn’t talked about as much in wargaming as it should be. Board gamers tend to discuss it much more in reviews of games and I don’t know why that is. Well, maybe I do. Arkham Horror 2nd Edition which I think you’ve played, requires a pretty big table. Its somewhat infamous for that.

      That would be a great idea for MESBG although I remember the underproduced card debacle from a few years ago at the same time… Fallout does not have unit stats in their rulebook so I don’t think we’d see that barring a big change in the game. I said this below to Nic but GW has done a pretty good job being stewards of the LOTR line of games and making it consumer friendly for the most part. When you see how other companies do it, you start to see where they fall down and how good GW is at it.

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  7. Thanks for an interesting read. I hadn’t understood how much overlap there was between Wasteland Warfare and Factions; I’d always simply assumed that they were totally discrete games which were simply set in the same world (for example, in the way that Battlefleet Gothic and Necromunda are both part of the 40K universe but don’t overlap at all).

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    1. Modiphius made an interesting choice in that the models released alongside Factions are usable in both games which is customer friendly but also a bit confusing. I think Factions is closer to MCP than Wasteland Warfare is though I might be wrong on that.

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